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Interviews and photographs by Jung Min (Kevin) Kim.
Frieda Quon
Greenville, MS
The Chinese kids who are born in the United States are called Juk Sing meaning—I think this is what it means that, okay, we look Asian, right. We look Asian. And so even when we open our mouths and talk, they’re expecting us to sound like immigrant-speaking people. But I’m Southern. I chose to stay here, and I guess that’s where I am. – Frieda Quon
"Caught between the notch of a bamboo stick”. That's how Juk Sing translates into English from the native Cantonese of the parents of Frieda Quon. It is how immigrants refer to those who are Chinese by appearances but American in nationality. They are seen as caught in the middle of two worlds, not quite “American” because of their looks, but not fully “Chinese” either, as they were born and educated in America. Frieda, who was born and raised in Mississippi, considers herself a Chinese-Southerner and sees herself not as a “notch” that separates, but rather a bridge that connects the two worlds together.
Though she looks fondly at her childhood growing up in the back of her parent's grocery store, Min Sang Company, which is operated by her siblings today, Frieda knew that the life of a grocery store owner was a hard one and an occupation to which she did not aspire. Frieda, like many of her generation, chose to leave the grocery store in favor of college and a professional career in library science. But unlike many of her generation, Frieda chose to stay in Mississippi, the place she has called home all her life.
NOTE: What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
Subject: Frieda Quon
Date: August 25, 2010
Location: Delta State University- Greenville, MS
Interviewer & Photographer: Jung Min (Kevin) Kim
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Kevin Kim: This is Kevin Kim for the Southern Foodways Alliance. Today is Wednesday, August 25, 2010 and I’m here at Delta State University in Cleveland, Mississippi with Mrs. Frieda Quon. Mrs. Quon, can you please state your name and date of birth and place of birth for the record please?
Frieda Quon: Frieda Quon, August 4, 1942, Greenville, Mississippi.
Thank you Mrs. Quon. I know it’s not polite to ask for a woman’s age, but thank you. [Laughs] So I guess to begin I’d like to sort of ask—I guess we should begin with your sort of family history and your parents’ history. Could you go back and sort of tell us about how your parents first came to the Mississippi Delta?
Yes; my father was in business with brothers and they had a grocery store in Greenville. And my mother, housewife, and helped in the store and there—there were five children and there were at least that many adults. And so she was pretty busy with the store and the house and—and taking care of everybody.
And what part of China did they come from or were they born here in the States?
Okay; my father was born in Canton except they don’t call it that – Guangdong, maybe now. My mother was actually born in Brooklyn, New York but at the age of nine her—her mom moved back to China and so my mother was there until my father came. And they were—it was an arranged marriage in 1941 I think. And so then my father brought mom to Greenville in yeah—1941.
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And do you remember where the store was in Greenville?
It’s on Alexander Street and Eureka. In fact, it is still open today.
Oh really? And—and is it—is it still in the family or thereabouts?
Yes; uh-huh. I have two brothers and a sister and they still operate the store. It’s kind of like a neighborhood store. The clientele is just you know customers who can—can kind of walk to the store or they’re—. I don’t know; it’s the—just the little corner grocery store, uh-hm.
So the store is still there. Has it—has it been changed in any way or has it—?
Um, yes; I—yes and no. I mean they still sell cold cuts, which you know they will cut you know by order whatever you request. You know like you could just request three slices. And but they had modernized by you know adding new refrigeration equipment and just I don’t know—it—it’s old but it’s new, you know what—whatever they can do to improve it.
And did your father and mother, did they have a separate house from the grocery store or did they all live in the—either the top or the back of the grocery store? How was the living arrangements like?
Okay; initially it was a—a wooden structure and we lived in the back of the store. And then I think it was in the ‘50s that it was decided that they would build a—a brick store. And so I think the store was built and then it—a house which is attached to the store was added. And so that—that is still the arrangement today.
I forgot to ask you the name of the store?
Min Sang— Min Sang Company.
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And how would you say—what was the sort of transition like? I don’t know if you—if you can sort of talk about the transition between your father running a laundry and then running grocery store like? Did he—did he know or—or do you remember if he and his brothers knew what they were getting into or if the grocery store business was sort of new to them and they had to sort of learn as they were going?
Definitely I think there was a learning because my father had to learn about the laundry business as you know this was something that, you know he didn't know when he came over. And then I’m sure that you know when he came to Mississippi they would have to learn about operating the grocery store. And in those days everything wasn’t packaged because you would have cookies that would be loose. You would maybe even have eggs that are not in cartons and I don’t know we—we would hear stories about you know how—how they would have—peanuts maybe would come in a barrel and things like that. And so there was definitely a learning curve.
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So you mentioned some of your Chinese American friends. What was the Chinese community like in Greenville at the time when you were growing up? I—I assume it’s you know far fewer Chinese now in Greenville; can you sort of talk a bit about the community back then and for example how many grocery stores? Do you remember if there were a lot of grocery stores in Greenville that were owned by Chinese?
Yes; there was quite a number, but—and I hesitate to say it because I don’t know. Greenville being probably a larger city than Cleveland or you know some of these other—I mean you mentioned Clarksdale, I mean I think Greenville had a greater population than a lot of the other Delta towns. That meant there were numerous Chinese families in—in Greenville. The—prior to my going to first grade, the children weren’t allowed to go to the white public school, so there was a Chinese school. And it was all of the children grades one through twelve who received instruction from a teacher who taught them all. And then we had participations and support from the Baptist Church in town and the Superintendent. Okay; let me see how this happened?
Deacons from the Church appealed to the Superintendent of the schools to allow the Chinese children to go to school. And so I think maybe they allowed junior high and high school initially to come for one year to see how it would go. And the—the Chinese children did fine. I mean they were good students. They were not behavior problems. And so when it was time for me to start first grade I was able to go to the public school, so I never attended the Chinese school.
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Sorry; I guess I feel like I’m jumping back and forth. But I’d like to ask if you remember growing up, did your parents—did your mother ever try to learn how to cook American food or—or—or what did she cook growing up, I guess?
Right; okay. My mother I think she must have been about 18 or 19 when she was married and came over. And then all of the sudden she—she became the cook. And in addition to caring for the children there were these, you know adult—because my father had brothers and so she always would have to be preparing food and—and in—in that day and time, I mean breakfast was a meal that you cooked. I mean it would be like oatmeal or whatever. And then lunch, I mean I don’t think they ever had sandwiches. It—it would be probably something like soup and I—I think she probably had to learn and—and it was a mixture of Chinese and American food.
Because they were in the grocery store then you know she would be able to I suppose—cabbage or potatoes or whatever and—and make a dish that could be stir-fried, uh-huh. It would take American—because I don’t remember—I know that she always had a full meal at the—all three times of the day. And you know I just imagine that was quite a chore [Laughs].
So what was the kitchen area like in the back of the store, because I’ve seen a lot of woks in the back of Chinese American grocery stores you know with a small stove? I guess that was similar to your story as well?
Right; uh-hm. I mean you described it perfectly. There were would be the table where the meals were served but definitely she would have a wok and definitely there’s a stove and rice it—you know it’s always there, and I mean she always had a balanced meal. I mean you know because we—we would have meat and a vegetable and soup. You know so it was—it—it was quite a production I would think to have to do that [Laughs].
And you said she used sort of American ingredients like cabbage and—and potatoes. Did she ever try growing her own Chinese vegetables or anything like that?
I—I can remember that we—we would have a garden in the back and so by that we could have you know the—the long green beans, the Chinese green beans that—we would call it dou gak and the bitter melon, you know the melon that you use to make soup. Yes; I can remember that we would have gardens. And then we—we might even have chicken you know and raise chicken. And so basically it was a very healthy—healthy diet that you know using fresh vegetables and eating you know like chicken and not that much meat. I think the Chinese diet is probably better than the American diet where we get too much, probably way more meat than we need.
So you were saying that every day was sort of a production. Did she—did she ever try cooking during any of the sort of major holidays for example Chinese New Year or anything like that? Did you guys ever celebrate any sort of traditional Chinese festivals or holidays or anything like that when—when you were growing up?
Chinese New Year was probably you know a—a reason to have a special meal. Since we were in you know we’re in America now then we celebrated you know American holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas and—and—and Easter and all of those. And so yes; special meals, I mean holidays called for special meals and—and she—she was very good at it really.
So during the sort of American holidays like Thanksgiving or Christmas, did she try to just cook American or did she have Chinese dishes as well on the table or was it—did you remember if she had you know—if she had the turkey with you know for example other like stir-fried Chinese vegetables? Did you see a mix on the table or was—you know as it American food during American holidays and Chinese food during Chinese holidays—that sort of thing?
I think it was a mix; I think it was a mix. I mean you know for Thanksgiving and Christmas you would always have turkey and you’d always have dressing but—but you could also have chow mien or you know there would be side dishes you know other—because there would be so many dishes and—and she was always happy to learn about new dishes, and so would—would try these.
And so there were other Chinese moms and I guess they exchanged recipes and such. But she definitely incorporated the—the American you know with the turkey. And then Easter we had ham right; and July Fourth we had barbecue and so it—. I—I think because my mother was younger that she was more eager to learn about you know the American food culture.
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And so—so you sort of mentioned a bit about the clientele that you saw growing up coming through the store. Can you just sort of describe what your—what the neighborhood around the store was like? Was it racially mixed? Did it have—did it cater to say the—the farmhands or could you describe a little bit of the neighborhood that you grew up in?
Okay; it—it was kind of at a point in town where on one side of the street like you crossed the street and it was like the black people were there. And then the backside of the store, those customers were mainly white. Our store had a premium meat market and so that would draw in the white customers, who you know would want certain roasts or certain steak. The black customers probably wanted things that—I guess we would call soul food you know like ham hock and salt meat and not to say that white people didn't want that, too. But anyway, it—it was just a mixture. We—we saw both—both kinds of customers.
And was the neighborhood, how would you describe the sort of income level of the neighborhood? Was it mixed income or would you s ay that they were of you know lesser means or—?
Uh-hm; it was kind of a mixture. Definitely you would have the lower income but with the white customers then it might be middle-class or maybe a little more than that. Actually I—I do remember there was a customer, it was a Jewish customer and they owned one of the main stores in downtown Greenville. And they were very frugal; every week they would call and order—I mean because they could pick up the phone and just order you know the groceries they would need for that week. And so every week they would call up and order; we want this—I think it was called a seven-bone chuck roast or something. And so I—I guess they must have had this roast all week—every week they would order that. And so we saw both; we saw both.
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And so now do you—now I guess that is a concern so the competition between the large grocery stores—how do you think, and I guess this may be something to ask your—you said your sisters and brothers still run the store?
I have two brothers who are running the store. And actually they could retire or you know just close the store, but they’ve done it so long that I don’t know. I think they just feel like this is—this is what they want to do. And it—I don’t know; I probably would have closed the store by now but they choose—they choose you know to keep operating it. And I—I don’t know; I mean I don’t know how long the store will continue but it’s still operating, uh-hm.
Well I was going to say that your history is sort of indicative of—of sort the—the sort of trend of Chinese grocery stores where a lot of times the children of the grocery store owners would—would sort of move away or you know not—not take over afterwards and—and that was something that you know I’ve—I’ve been getting a lot of from. And so I’m wondering if—if you ever thought of taking over the store when you were growing up or if you always saw you know going to college and going and having a professional career as your sort of way in life.
I—I don’t think that I—because I—as soon as we were able to work in the store then you know we—we had to do it. So I don’t think that I ever thought that I would—okay this is going to be my life because you know I was able to go to college. I was able to learn a profession and—and so I—I would rather do that than—than run the store.
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So I think I once read somewhere the, you know the reason why the Chinese came here or for that matter any sort of immigrant group—an immigrant group that comes here is, I think it’s something called Gam Sahn or Golden Mountain I think it’s called.
Gum Sahn.
Yeah; I was wondering if you could sort of tell us about—a little bit about that concept you know how you know—why someone would leave you know their life say in China to come here and that sort of idea of the Golden Mountain?
Yeah; I don’t understand how—because it’s a misconception, so it’s giving up this life that you know with your family and then you come over to this new land and—and so they have this concept that all you have to do is come over. And—and the fact that they call it Golden Mountain, and I don’t know why they don’t go back and tell them—say oh we had to work very, very hard at this and it’s not you know just that easy.
But until—until somebody comes over and sees that I don’t know that the ones in China understand because the one who is over here working here often will be just sending money home, you know sending money back to China so that these you know can have a better life and just keeping very little for themselves. And—and the idea initially was that they would earn a lot of money and then go back—go back to China.
Now my uncles did that. I have an older uncle, a second uncle and—and they did. They worked—because they left their families in China and—and so they worked hard, sent money home, and then when it was time for them to retire, they did go home—go back to China. But my—my parents stayed because mom was here, all the children were here, and after—after you’ve been in this country 30-something years then this becomes home. So but that—that was a misconception, the Golden Mountain thing. And the—the ones in China would—would not know or understand until—until they come over here and see it themselves.
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Well we’ve been talking about American this and American that and American food, and I’m wondering if you consider yourself Southern and if you see yourself as having a Southern identity.
Oh definitely, definitely yeah; it’s very obvious because I just came back from Los Angeles and so it—it’s just kind of—I guess we’re kind of an oddity because the—maybe the Chinese out there because there are so many Chinese in California, right, and—and so anyway there’s an expression. The Chinese kids who are born in—in the United States are called Juk Sing meaning—have you heard that expression, Juk Sing? Okay; which means, I—I think this is what it means that okay, we look Asian, right; we look Asian. And so even when we open our mouths and talk they’re expecting us to sound like immigrant speaking people, but you know okay; so I—I’m Southern. I chose to stay here and I guess that’s where I am.
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So where do you think the—the—the future of the Chinese community then lies here in the Delta? You were saying that you’ve noticed a lot of professional people coming in now and at the same time you know the younger people are moving away you know to cities, like you said Houston and Los Angeles. So I’m wondering what—what do you see in the future for the Chinese community here?
Well it’s definitely dwindling because we have a Chinese Mission in Greenville that you know was organized principally to serve the Chinese who didn't choose to go to church in the morning and so in the afternoon there’s a Chinese service. All right; at the time I was growing up, any time you went to church there would be over 100 people. And now when you go there might be less than 20. And so it’s—it’s because—well the young people are not staying; the young people are looking for job opportunities which are not necessarily in you know—here in the Delta. Now there’s some who stay but a lot of them leave.
All right; and then the older Chinese are dying or maybe they’ve moved off to you know where their families are. So I see that we’re just going to have less and less Chinese here in the Delta.
To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
